Wikipedia:IRC-loggar/Spørsmål om korleis pengemidler kan best brukast

#Wikimedia 20041101

Irrelevante deler er fjerna:

(15:01:23) dittaeva: A norwegian organization for the promototion of Norwegian Nynorsk language will probably get 1.1 million USD to make a Norwegian Nynorsk encyclopedia on the internet. I am going to "represent" nn.wikipedia on a conference discussing how to use those money this thursday and friday. Any suggestions as to how such money could be used to further nn.wikipedia?
(15:01:56) Angela: dittaeva: that sounds great
(15:02:38) TimStarling: 1.1 million? They're obviously thinking of old-fashioned encyclopedias
(15:02:43) Xirzon: dittaeva: invite expert writers and reviewers, increase brand awareness, fund development of peer review system...
(15:04:28) Xirzon: nupedia spent about $500K, so it's definitely relatively easy to spend money if you want to :)
(15:05:11) dittaeva: Yeah, they're thinking in old-fashioned terms, they originally wanted about thrice the amount:-)
(15:05:32) TimStarling: the thing is, for 1.1 million you would want something more comprehensive than a wikipedia proportional in size to the number of nyorsk speakers
(15:05:55) dittaeva: And the 500K USD was mostly spent on writers?
(15:06:41) TimStarling: maybe
(15:06:42) Angela: I think spending the money on a peer review system would be the best idea, since this could later be applied to other wikis as well
(15:06:59) TimStarling: (that was maybe to dittaeva)
(15:07:16) Xirzon: dittaeva: how detailed will the presentation be?
(15:08:08) dittaeva: Tim: You mean that nn.wikipedia never would manage to cover the width of a conventional encyclopedia? I bet you wrong!
(15:09:14) ***Xirzon reads about [[Nynorsk language]]
(15:09:14) dittaeva: Yeah perhaps peer-review is a good suggestion, anyway I don't expect many of them have heard of any wiki at all
(15:09:39) Xirzon: you should impress people with the growth of the international wikipedias, and try to illustrate how reasonable proportions can be achieved in Nynorsk
(15:10:09) Xirzon: use wikistats, they have plenty of nice charts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wikistats/EN/Sitemap.htm
(15:10:48) dittaeva: I had a presentation today where I tried to impress, I think it worked
(15:10:56) Xirzon: in order to convince people, you need to convince them both about the quantitative and the qualitative aspects
(15:11:08) Xirzon: showcase some of the best articles (maybe from no.)
(15:11:25) dittaeva: Yeah, the german review are very good as "proof"
(15:11:41) Xirzon: and if you're talking about spending $1.1M, talk about how this money could be used to achieve both of these aspects
(15:11:46) dittaeva: (Zeit, c't)
(15:11:58) Xirzon: as a community encyclopedia you should brainstorm a little about ways to reach awareness in the nynorsk (?) language community
(15:12:34) dittaeva: Then I guess, peer-review and promotion/awareness are important areas
(15:12:42) TimStarling: dittaeva: no, I'm quite sure it can be comprehensive, just not without breaking from the wiki process
(15:12:59) TimStarling: I don't know
(15:13:12) TimStarling: maybe you can hire editors to work on a wiki
(15:13:24) dittaeva: Before involving myself in the Nynorsk wikipedia I also thought so
(15:13:56) Xirzon: dittaeva: I think you should at least explore the topic of guest writers and expert reviewers in your talk to convince those who believe there's not a sufficient number of nynorsk speakers to write a completely volunteer-based encyclopedia
(15:13:58) dittaeva: but the activity on nn has been truly WikiWiki .... impressive
(15:14:04) TimStarling: people are very strongly opposed to hiring editors for en
(15:14:41) dittaeva: I think the small nn community we have now is quite open, also to such ideas
(15:14:54) Xirzon: there's very little justification to do this when we have 360K+ articles written by volunteers or from public domain sources
(15:15:12) Xirzon: but with a small language like Nynorsk such options need to be openly discussed.
(15:15:29) dittaeva: You don't mind if I (perhaps) saves this IRC-talk on nn.wikipedia somewhere?
(15:15:44) Xirzon: me - not at all
(15:15:46) TimStarling: I don't mind
(15:16:10) Xirzon: dittaeva: are there nynorsk language organizations you could collaborate with?
(15:16:31) dittaeva: Yeah, and they're quite active.
(15:16:49) Xirzon: try to make a list of these organizations and groups, if you haven't already
(15:17:11) dittaeva: It was easier for Openoffice.org to get Nynorsk translators than bokmål translators
(15:17:32) Xirzon: jwales said he was working on a paper on peer review, you could ask him if some of it could be used for your presentation
(15:17:57) Xirzon: if not, there's a lot of stuff on this on en: and meta
(15:19:21) dittaeva: I think I've looked trough most of it, if I get any time for a presentation it will probably be very short so I'll have to confine myself to a short introduction.
(15:19:38) Angela: TimStarling: where have people opposed that? I didn't think there was any strong opposition to paid editors
(15:20:04) dittaeva: The difficullt part that I simplified severely today is in explaining the concept of "free"
(15:20:16) Xirzon: Angela: paid reviewers would probably easier to get through than paid editors
(15:21:02) brion [~brion@adsl-67-125-201-190.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net] entered the room.
(15:22:10) Xirzon: dittaeva: have to go back to work, feel free to send me a mail if you want me to look over something (needs to be English or German)
(15:25:34) TimStarling: Angela: there were some posts on it when people first started talking about developer payment
(15:25:46) TimStarling: before Xirzon really started pushing it
(15:26:07) TimStarling: I said don't pay me, pay photographers and graphic designers
(15:26:14) TimStarling: and a couple of people replied along those lines
(15:26:33) Angela: there's probably different opinions depending on what "editors" are
(15:27:01) ***jwales has to go to the colo.
(15:27:02) Angela: paying for creating articles might be more controversial than fact checking
(15:27:56) Angela: dittaeva: has there been any discussion on the wiki about this yet?
(15:27:58) jwales: The first person we should pay is a hardware tech part-time for me, a smart college kid recruited from a local free software club or something... because it's local work, requires a specific time commitment, and therefore hard for a volunteer to do.
(15:28:43) jwales: bye
(15:28:47) Angela: bye
(15:34:40) dittaeva: Angela: not really, we have a page for discussing the conference, but haven't gotten there yet, we're having a chat at #nn.wikipedia 20:00 this evening
(15:35:01) dittaeva: (we, might just be me and one more, we'll see)
(15:37:39) Angela: do they know about Wikipedia yet or will the conference be the first time they hear of it?
(15:40:27) dittaeva: for most it will probably be the first time
(15:40:57) Angela: so are they planning on creating a new Nynorsk encyclopedia?
(15:41:17) Angela: but you're hoping to convince them to pay for Wikipedia instead of that?
(15:41:29) dittaeva: Aha
(15:41:41) dittaeva: you got it
(15:41:56) Angela: right
(15:42:08) dittaeva: But I'm not really hoping that far yet
(15:42:20) Angela: it'll be hard. You'll have to convince them that a wiki can work to start with
(15:42:27) dittaeva: the first goal is to tell them we're here
(15:43:15) dittaeva: I know, not sure how detailed or "insisting" I should be
(15:43:43) dittaeva: when it comes to giving comments  in the course of the conference
(15:44:20) Angela: you might want to read up on the replies to objections page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Replies_to_common_objections
(15:44:22) dittaeva: depends if I get any speaktime or not
(15:44:53) dittaeva: thanks, I've looked through it once, will try to learn it;-)
(15:45:28) Angela: you don't know yet how long you'll have to speak?
(15:46:46) dittaeva: I don't know yet IF I'll have time to speak
(15:47:32) dittaeva: FYI: Wikipedia is also going to be presented by a Opera employee on this
(15:47:33) dittaeva: http://www.digitalogsosial.no/eng_index.php
(15:47:36) dittaeva: conference
(15:49:55) dittaeva: Jorunn Danielsen Newth
(15:52:52) Angela: it looks a great conference. Even if you don't get to speak officially at it, you'll probably get a chance to talk to the relevant people individually about Wikipedia
(15:54:01) dittaeva: the link I gave is not where I'm going. I'm going here: http://www.aasentunet.no/?previewpage=go%2Ecfm%3Fid%3D46321%26type%3Darticle%26lang%3Dnno%26path%3D427%2C434
(15:54:12) Angela: oh right
(15:56:11) Angela: hmm, you click on the "english" link and it gives you a page nothing like the Norweigen one
(16:03:10) Angela: someone really needs to make a decent norwegian->English translator. The program on aasentunet.no seems to be blah blah nonsense dictionary blah dictionary foo, so I guess they're talking a lot about dictionaries, but that's all I can tell :)
(16:03:46) dittaeva: anything in particular you'd like to know?
(16:04:14) dittaeva: the most relevant part is this:
(16:04:15) dittaeva: 
 1245  NYNORSK PÅ INTERNETT 2005-2014: KVEN GJER KVA - OG KVA MED PENGANE? Paneldebatt der desse er inviterte:
(16:04:15) dittaeva:  1245  NYNORSK PÅ INTERNETT 2005-2014: KVEN GJER KVA - OG KVA MED PENGANE? Paneldebatt der desse er inviterte:
(16:04:15) dittaeva:         Trine Skei Grande (kyrkje-, utdannings- og forskingskomiteen), Audun 
(16:04:15) dittaeva:         Heskestad (Det Norske Samlaget), Magnhild Meltveit Kleppa (leiar 
(16:04:15) dittaeva:         kommunalkomiteen), Rolf Reikvam (leiar kyrkje-, utdannings- og 
(16:04:15) dittaeva:         forskingskomiteen), Olemic Thomessen (leiar familie-, administrasjons- og 
(16:04:15) dittaeva:         kulturkomiteen)
(16:04:44) dittaeva: a debate about nynorsk encyclopedia on the internet
(16:05:50) dittaeva: where it looks like all but one (Samlaget - nynorsk publisher) comes from the parliament
(16:06:03) Angela: that starts out as "Paneldebatt there again am was inviting : Step Skei Whiz-bang kyrkje" via the translator :)
(16:06:34) dittaeva: I guess its not a nynorsk translator :-P
(16:06:34) Angela: is it a panel debating things or will there be audience participation too?
(16:06:40) TimStarling: $1.1 million is about $1.60 for each person who uses Nyorsk as their main written language
(16:06:46) dittaeva: its a panel
(16:06:53) villy|naptest is now known as villy
(16:07:06) dittaeva: but I suppose the audience will be involved too?
(16:07:31) dittaeva: How many are there?
(16:07:36) dittaeva: (tim?)
(16:07:58) TimStarling: estimates vary from 10% to 20% of the population of Norway
(16:08:05) dittaeva: yeah
(16:08:37) TimStarling: I used 15%
(16:09:28) TimStarling: so that's about 680,000
(16:15:37) TimStarling: I wish we could get $1.60 per person from a larger population, then we'd really be in business :)
(16:30:05) TimStarling left the room (quit: "Client Exiting").
(16:36:35) dittaeva: bye
(16:36:41) Angela: bye
(16:36:51) Xirzon: cu dittaeva , good luck